The president of the Catalan Civil Society rejects the application of article 155 as an electoral weapon.
Josep Ramon Bosch (Santpedor, Barcelona, 1963), president of Societat Civil Catalana. He was one of the founders of the entity, whose presidency, which he now holds, also held between 2014 and 2015.
Question. Why have you decided not to participate in the demonstration called by PP, Ciudadanos and Vox?
Answer. First because it is in Madrid and our field of work is in Catalonia. It is true that its motto is for the unity of Spain and there we are comfortable, but we can not be in a demonstration that is largely against the Government. People may like Pedro Sánchez more or less, but he is a legitimate president and we have to be with the Government. However, the board has six people and two will participate (one is Esperanza García, a member of the PP in the Parlament). I will not participate.
Q. Does it seem counterproductive to hold such a demonstration?
A. All the demonstrations serve if it is to channel the anger. I understand that people want to manifest themselves. I am not a supporter of demonstrations or flags and it is neither good nor positive to do so in times of tension.
Josep Ramon Bosch (Santpedor, Barcelona, 1963), president of Societat Civil Catalana. He was one of the founders of the entity, whose presidency, which he now holds, also held between 2014 and 2015.
Question. Why have you decided not to participate in the demonstration called by PP, Ciudadanos and Vox?
Answer. First because it is in Madrid and our field of work is in Catalonia. It is true that its motto is for the unity of Spain and there we are comfortable, but we can not be in a demonstration that is largely against the Government. People may like Pedro Sánchez more or less, but he is a legitimate president and we have to be with the Government. However, the board has six people and two will participate (one is Esperanza García, a member of the PP in the Parlament). I will not participate.
Q. Does it seem counterproductive to hold such a demonstration?
A. All the demonstrations serve if it is to channel the anger. I understand that people want to manifest themselves. I am not a supporter of demonstrations or flags and it is neither good nor positive to do so in times of tension.
Q. Your decision surprises ...
A. Civil Society has always been very transversal. We have people who come from Catalanism, Spanishism, socialism or the PP. We want to represent a plurality. They define us as very right wing and Spanishists for going against the procés. And we have argued that this is not the case. We have been faithful to our founding principles: together better and talk as little as possible about politics.
Q. You have been an advisor to Manuel Valls, candidate for Citizens. What do you think that he have decided to change his mind and go to the demonstration?
A. He has always been very clear with Vox and in France he faced the extreme right and Marine Le Pen. I spoke with him and he had doubts: he is close to Citizens and Catalanism and he had that duality. But he has said that he considers that the demonstration is not in favor of the right but of the unity of Spain.
Q. You have been an advisor to Manuel Valls, candidate for Citizens. What do you think that he have decided to change his mind and go to the demonstration?
A. He has always been very clear with Vox and in France he faced the extreme right and Marine Le Pen. I spoke with him and he had doubts: he is close to Citizens and Catalanism and he had that duality. But he has said that he considers that the demonstration is not in favor of the right but of the unity of Spain.
Q. What do you think the Government has suspended negotiations with the pro-independence activists after accepting the figure of the rapporteur from the outset?
A. The limits of the dialogue are the Constitution. And there is no room for self-determination: Catalonia is not a colony, nor an oppressed people, nor is there an armed conflict in it, which are the assumptions contemplated by the UN. I understand that the Government has broken the negotiations unilaterally. I could not accept that blackmail. I assume the words of Felipe González. The only rapporteur is the Constitution.
Q. What should the dialogue be according to you?
Q. What should the dialogue be according to you?
A. Obviously, you have to talk. The two governments are legitimate. It is about talking about how to turn around that a significant percentage of Catalans have abandoned the idea of Spain. I have a very good relationship with people close to ANC or Òmnium. I've always talked to independentists. The vast majority of my family and friends are and are not my enemies or rivals. And that does not mean I'll stop talking to them because they have ideological differences.
Q. You have just assumed the position again and it gives the impression that it has softened.
Q. You have just assumed the position again and it gives the impression that it has softened.
A. I have always manifested myself as a Catalanist defending Spain and I have made it clear that my cultural nation is Catalonia and that my political nation is Spain. I defend the unity of Catalan. When Societat Civil arose, our speech was groundbreaking with respect to that monolithic of the procés and they accused us of unionists and Spanishists. But our speech is firm and clear regarding the unity of Spain. From what unit? We can talk about many. When I say that my language and my culture is Catalan, I am breaking many stories about the unity of Spain.
Q. You said you were concerned about the emergence of a Spanish inflamed nationalism. What did you mean?
A. It is the law of the pendulum. Nationalism is war. Before a Catalan nationalism, almost identitarian, we now see another Castilian nationalism, which is framed in the Spanish flag confusing Castile with Spain. We are in a deaf dialogue. We defend Catalanness as our way of being Spanish. We are against the Catalan nationalism that conceives Spain as a strange reality and against that Castilian nationalism that arrogates the representation of Spain, the Castilian court and a concept that considers that Catalan and Catalanism are not part of that Spanish discourse. My speech is not accepted by everyone and is uncomfortable both here and there and is going against the current.
Q. PP and Citizens are wrong?
Q. PP and Citizens are wrong?
A. I will not go into the easy criticism of the parties. I'm not in favor of inflaming the street. I do not think that Vox is of extreme right: it is a Catholic right that could connect with the Carlist concept of the 19th century. And I do not feel reflected with that right. I do not want to criticize PP, Vox and Citizens but I do not feel comfortable with this call.
P. PP and Citizens request the application of 155 permanently Do you agree?
P. PP and Citizens request the application of 155 permanently Do you agree?
A. It is not good to use the threat of 155 by electoral interests. We are in favor whenever necessary. Applying the 155 will not help to solve the issue if it is not accompanied by a story directed especially to Catalan speakers who have abandoned the idea of Spain.
Q. But 155 applies when the law is broken. The Government has done it?
A. The Govern, whom they accuse of opening embassies, which are actually commercial delegations, is not governing. But I do not see the Generalitat not complying with Spanish laws or outlaws at the moment. If it had been a republic or an independent state, they would have freed the prisoners and the Mossos would protect them. And they have not done so: they have scrupulously complied with the EC precepts and the statute.
Q. The trial starts on Tuesday. Are you afraid there is tension in the street?
Q. The trial starts on Tuesday. Are you afraid there is tension in the street?
A. No. I live two kilometers from the prison of Lledoners. On weekends I go out with the bike and I pass by the jail. I have seen thousands of people who, although sad about the situation, have gone to jail to see the prisoners with a festive spirit and without throwing a paper on the floor. I do not see any state of violence or revolution or incidents. Catalonia is not a violent society. We do not live in a state of war as they sometimes say. I live in Santpedor, with an independence majority, and I have never had a bad look or incident. The worst was on October 1st. I experienced it as a very important drama. It was tremendous family break with several of my relatives but now it has gone back. I live calm. There are moments of tension and we have to lower it among all. I am very sorry for the acts of vandalism and aggressions against Citizens militants for putting up tents.
Q. Pablo Casado says that the independence agenda is the agenda of ETA.
A. It is not, but it is true that the independence movement is sometimes accompanied by voices close to ETA. Otegi is regarded as a flag and Terra Lliure's relationship with the ETA has never been fully clarified. But it is not true that one thing can be compared to another. The vast majority of the independence movement is peaceful and calm although there are radicals as everywhere,
Q. How do you get out of this situation?
Q. How do you get out of this situation?
A. With a lot of time. It is a work of the future. We leave with a story. Separatism has been defeated and the unilateral path is over. There is a very high percentage of voters (47%) that votes to independentist parties because the unionist parties do not give way to the situation. We must return to centrality and reduce the percentage to 25%. I am a rare avis, I have eight Catalan last names and I feel very Catalan and Spanish, but there are very few like me. Nationalism is a bit like the gatopardo: change everything so that nothing changes. And the independence movement in the end is a cry of despair of Catalanness. Many have abandoned the feeling of Spain because there is no Spanish story for the Catalans. There is not a Spain for the Catalans. Catalanism was born with the mission to conquer economically but also culturally and politically to Spain. It is a way of feeling Spain from our way of being.
https://elpais.com/ccaa/2019/02/09/catalunya/1549723376_078271.html
https://elpais.com/ccaa/2019/02/09/catalunya/1549723376_078271.html
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