Alfonso Valero: What Tyrants do is claim that Democracy is above the Rule of Law

EN ES

Josep María Francàs
SinPostureo





ENGLISH

Calm conversation between Josep María Francas (@jmfrancas) and Alfonso Valero (@alfvalero) a non-practicing lawyer (England and Wales), founder of the Professors´ Forum (Foro de Profesores - @foroprofesores) 

JMF: You coordinate a group of law experts to follow the ‘procés’ trial. What is this group?
AV: The Jurists´ Committee to Analyze Special Cause 20907/2017 is a group of highly regarded lawyers and professors gathered with the unique compromise - as mere citizens - with the Rule of Law, the Spanish Constitution and democracy at large. Our objective is to follow the trial and then evaluate the fulfillment of the Spanish, European and International legal standards. That is, an unbiased technical, non political, analysis.
JMF: Is it an activity of the Professors’ Forum?
AV: Yes, it’s an activity of the Forum. However, some participants are members of the Professors’ Forum while others aren’t, yet they share a similar vision and compromise.
JMF: Are there only pro constitution lawyers in the group?
AV: Every single one of these jurists defends the Rule of Law, comprising the Spanish Constitution as an essential part of it, and democracy at large. In other words, for us, the only possible way to analyze a judiciary process is through legal parameters, leaving politics aside.
JMF: Are pro Independence jurists contaminated?
AV: I wouldn’t say contaminated, but if one’s analysis is shaped by a political vision, then it stops being techno-legal to become ideological. I think there must be separatist jurists who understand it is necessary to explain the Law for what it is, not for what one would wish it was. But this compromise with objectivity is not always present.
JMF: How do you see the trial so far?
AV: We shouldn’t forget we are just beginning the hearings. We have just heard accused parties. First their pleas regarding potential violations of their rights and then their depositions as indicted. Thus, the main part is still to come. In my opinion, so far, the accused have foregone an opportunity. Instead of using their turn to present legal pleas, they decided to give political speeches. Instead of defending their position, they have opted for “teaching” the court and cite some rights allegedly more important than the Law. Anyhow, the trial has just begun.
JMF: Is democracy above the Law?
AV: Democracy doesn’t exist if it is not through the Law. To appeal to a democracy that is above the Law is what tyrants do… “I know what people want/need, so I go over the Law as it doesn’t fit my plans”.
During this first week of trial, we heard Mr. Torra [current Catalan regional president] in a radio interview on Onda Cero say how he plans to change the law if his loses the majority… There it is: if you don’t have a majority you don’t speak in the name of democracy but just in the name of your group of power. A power you want to impose over the law, outside democracy.
JMF: This is their main argument so far…
AV: It’s a populist argument, but it sells well. Everybody loves an oppressed rebel. It’s an instinctive emotional reaction. Nationalism pivots on its appeal to these emotional reactions. “Democracy” resounds nicely while “Law” sounds hard and rigid. They have also argued they are not bound to obey the court as it is illegitimate. They use the kind of tyrannical arguments we often hear from Venezuela’s President Maduro. But as both Venezuelans and Spaniards know very well, if the Law isn’t above the powerful democracy doesn’t exist. Let me ask you something, when former separatist Catalan regional President Mas stopped voting in the 2014 referendum using the Mossos [Catalan police force] baton in hand… did he do it in the name of democracy or under the Rule of Law?
JMF: What did Mas do? I don’t remember.
AV: In May 2014 there was a “multi referendum” with questions about fracking, transgenics, the Generalitat’s public debt… among others. The Generalitat [Catalan Regional Government] sent their Mossos to seize the ballots because it was an illegal vote. Some of the organizers ended up sentenced guilty of disobedience.
JMF: Right, I had forgotten… What interest does this trial have from a legal point of view?
AV: It is very relevant. First, it will clear the facts and will determine what is proven. From a strictly legal point of view if will clarify the scope of the rebellion crime. Article 472 of the Criminal Code requires violent upraise. What needs to be clarified is the concept of violence itself. Some argue violence occurs only when weapons are used; other maintain violence is not only an act like Tejero’s [takeover the Spanish congress] in 1981, but it must also include the possibility of using it. Actually, those who defend the need of physical violence are saying that any rebellion without shooting is not a rebellion. Or something even more perverse: any failed rebellion is not a rebellion as a winning one would never be considered so because there would be nobody to prosecute it.
JMF: How does the international press see the trial?
AV: Aside from some remarkable exceptions, the international press is using this trial to lecture Spain about democracy. For instance, British daily The Independent started by saying they didn’t want to meddle with Spanish democracy and then went on doing the exact opposite. The Times did it too, though much more courteously. French journals have mixed reactions. Nevertheless, it is obvious that separatists are seizing this opportunity for their propaganda, they are using their so called “embassies” and all the resources at their disposal. The [Spanish] government should be much more educational and active to prevent the use of taxpayer’s money to attack the Spanish democracy and its judiciary.
JMF: Are they winning in the international battlefront due to the Spanish Government’s failure to appear?
AV: The Spanish government is doing something, though bashfully, while facing a very well lubricated machinery engineered for situations like the current one. Their arguments are ready, its funding well set up… for example, an organization named “Foreign Friends of Catalonia” publicly admits to host journalists for free. They facilitate interviews with families, obviously only separatist ones, and translate for them. These kind of activities need funding. Money that separatists don’t mind diverting from other high priority needs. Despite this, I don’t advocate for the Spanish government to do the same. Instead, they should provide more information and develop an educational strategy for journalists and diplomats and explain, openly, what is happening.
JMF: Nationalist money comes from every Spaniard taxpayer’s pocket. If they could just control this…
AV: That’s right. Not so long ago President Sanchez declared he couldn’t think of any other solution than dialogue… Without debating or refuting that statement I would like to supplement it: Audit their finances and figure out the origin of the expenditures. We don’t need to reinstall article 155 to do so. A proper control of the adequate use of taxpayer’s money everywhere in the country would be enough.
JMF: But you need to want to do it…
AV: You can’t expect those kinds of decisions during a pre-election period. I would settle with the government countering separatist propaganda. What The Independent may print has a relatively low importance. Its opinions and assessments don’t change the fact that Spain is a full fledge democracy (one out of a total of 20 in the world) and the fact that King Felipe VI received the Jurists for Peace World Association Award for his “unyielding” compromise with the Rule of Law, freedom and the constitutional order. Yet it is important insofar as it influences international opinion. The efforts of any Spanish government should walk along those lines.
JMF: I’m afraid the current Spanish government [socialist party] won’t do any of that if they need the support of the secessionists to govern. Just as they have done until now.
AV: Given I’m talking to you in the context of an activity of the Professor’s Forum I can’t give you answers to political matters. I wouldn’t want to confuse or mislead your readers.
JMF: Will you publish any reports about the trial
AV: We will indeed but only once the deposition period ends and then, later, when they publish the sentence. We’d like to publish it in Spanish, and, at least, also in English. Even though it will be a scholarly text it will also be educational and written taking into account the population at large.
JMF: Will you make any statements during the trial?
AV: Many Jurist Committee members frequently participate in different media. Many of them have weekly columns where they comment the trial. However, right now we don’t have any plans to publish anything as a Jurist Committee. That’s because we aim to make a rigorous in-depth report based on the legal standards of the Spanish, European and International Law, not on the day to day issues of the oral proceedings.
JMF: Thank you very much Alfonso. Warm regards. See you soon.
AV: Likewise. See you soon.

ESPAÑOL

Alfonso Valero: ‘Apelar a una democracia por encima de la ley es lo que hacen los tiranos…’

http://www.sinpostureo.com/politica/alfonso-valero-apelar-a-una-democracia-por-encima-de-la-ley-es-lo-que-hacen-los-tiranos/